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TITLE
A MODEST REBUTTAL
TO THE RED QUEEN'S
TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT

UPDATE 2012


JUMP LINKS
PART 2
PART 3
CONCLUSION

Welcome to the 2nd anniversary update to A Modest Rebuttal. For those who aren't familiar with the original A Modest Rebuttal, it is a blog published in July 2010 in defense of a vicious defamation campaign launched against me by Nancy Lieder of zetatalk.com (ZT)and poleshift.ning.com (psning), and formerly on godlikeproductions.com (GLP). This update will bring in material from the 2010 edition to match it with newly acquired evidence as proof, or further proof (as the case may be), of the libelous statements made by Nancy Lieder about me.

However, the purpose of this update is not altogether just the defense of my reputation. The past two years have been quite remarkable for the amount of effort and disinformation tactics Lieder and her moderators have used in trying to shut me and my website down. Why? Because I (and others) witnessed her true persona and she's gone rabid fearing that she will be exposed for the fraud that she and her Zetatalk is. There are no "Zetas." It's all NancyTalk. She is perpetrating a fraud on the public.

What you will be seeing is evidence that Nancy Lieder is not the service-to-other (STO) person she portrays. Instead, you will see a liar capable of publishing the most bizarre imaginings, and that she does, indeed, issue false ZetaTalk. It has become obvious that at least some of the advice she gives via ZetaTalk is either erroneous and/or dangerous. In fact, the entire body of work known as ZetaTalk is highly suspect, so much has been found that is untrue or seriously flawed. See links on the left side of the main page.

Thus, there is also a public service element in revealing her fraud via this expose. What will be shown is who Nancy really is, in her own words. I had the misfortune to meet this insane being and have been the subject of her vendetta for nearly three years, as she has tried to silence me. For all the foregoing reasons, it is time to shut this charlatan down before she ruins any more lives.

This new information presented below derives from a discussion about me on psning's administrative site (located at ecandpsadmin.ning.com and called "ecpsad" or the "admin ning" for short), which discussion was begun after I left poleshift.ning in July 2010. However, recently a copy of that discussion surfaced. In it, Lieder reviled me because I deleted all my content after I was banned from poleshift.ning at her instigation, then claimed I didn't post anything substantial, then hijacked several of my {unsubstantial} blogs. So, this in itself shows how she will say whatever will serve her in the moment, certainly not the truth.

All entries from the new evidence are screenshots from a .pdf file and show links when you click on Permalink or Send Message in the original .pdf document. Since it is cumbersome to show the links for every entry before I took screenshots, this first screenshot is a sample of what the links look like when you click on Permalink or Send Message in the original .pdf document. By clicking on one or the other link, it shows the URL of each comment. So, folks, what you are about to see is the real deal ... Nancy Lieder, raw and unedited...



Lieder, of course, denies that the .pdf file is real in this next email, as well as deflects the unwanted attention on her back onto me with her less-than-STO comments...


Notice how she does not deny she wrote it. Instead, she denies it is on "Gerard's moderator ning" (ecpsad). This is an example of telling a partial truth. What she neglects to say is that her comments in the .pdf file did, in fact, exist on ecpsad before Ning.com disabled that thread in December 2010, because that thread contained an unauthorized copy of one of my blogs (also known as copyright infringement or theft)...



In an earlier copyright infringement claim I had to file against Lieder and poleshift.ning.com, Lieder exhorted members of psning to retrieve another one of my blogs from Google cache and repost it under the finder's name.

Here's the original blog that I deleted after my suspension from poleshift.ning (yes, they kept all my blogs after my telling the owner of psning that he couldn't keep them if he suspended me)...



Here's Nancy's exhortation...



And someone did find it in Google cache and reposted it under his/her name, clearly citing his/her "authority" (Lieder's suggestion and encouragement) upon which s/he was doing so...







My blog ended with some ZetaTalk that Lieder had provided to me. You will notice in this next screenshot, not only does she, via her ZetaTalk, acknowledge I'm a contactee (which contradicts what she began saying about me after her meltdown), but more importantly the ZT notes thatm "Calculations are something that are constantly re-evaluated...." Thus, if calculations have to be constantly re-evaluated, by her Zetas' own admission, how could she ever give a certain date that a certain event would happen in a certain place? Yet she has. And every one has failed. The May 2003 date, which became the famous "White Lie." The famous 7 of 10 by the end of 2010 (having reached a certain level of earth changes by the end of 2010, on her scale). The July 20, 2011 date. Not to overlook that ZetaTalk has stated over the years the passage of Planet X would be before 2012, yet 2013 is here and no passage.



Ning.com agreed it was copyright infringement for them to have reposted my deleted blog without my permission and so Ning.com removed my blog portion from psning. (The comments rightfully remain the property of the individual commentators.) Lieder was well aware that copyright infringement is illegal because we had discussed copyright issues when I was an administrator at psning.

Back to the .pdf file, the comments in that file are her writing style, her picture, and the live links (URLs which also include her i.d. number) in the .pdf file counter her assertion that it is a fake and was never on ecpsad. Whether she ever put a copy onto her personal computers of the Zetatalk (ZT) that she issued on ecpsad is irrelevant. I still have it in email, which is how I received it from her.

So, that's a taste of what's coming. Before we get started, I'm going to review the timeline that led up to the first Rebuttal and what happened afterward, so you don't have to wade through the original Rebuttal.

I joined poleshift.ning.com (psning) in early November 2009, at the owner's invitation. Lieder joined later in November 2009. We were both appointed as administrators on January 3, 2010, being the first two. Within a few months, new moderators came on board. Everything was fine until a number of other moderators discovered some ethical issues with one particular moderator. They brought it to my attention. I brought it to the attention of the owner, who agreed with the original assessments that it was a problem that needed to be addressed. It was then brought to Lieder's attention. What followed was shocking. It is set forth in painful detail in the original A Modest Rebuttal. This occurred on May 24, 2010. I was forced, at Lieder's instigation, to resign as an administrator soon thereafter, while several other moderators voluntarily resigned over Lieder's conduct. I stayed on at psning as a general member until July 8, 2010, when I was suspended.

Three years ago, I suspected Lieder was behind the suspension, because of her STS conduct against me following the May 24th event, but now proof has surfaced. I had already launched earthchanges.ning.com (ECC) and continued my efforts with the new project. Very quickly, Lieder launched a defamation campaign via psning's email. It was brought to my attention and I prepared A Modest Rebuttal in my defense, thoroughly documenting the untruth of her statements, publishing the last installment on July 29, 2010. From then until the present, Lieder has abused the resources of psning in waging war against me and ECC. I live and let live, but when provoked, I have defended myself and ECC. This concludes the short version of the history of how I came to know Nancy Lieder.

Moving forward, in the original Rebuttal I alleged several times that Lieder forced the psning owner to suspend me. He denied it, but it was true as this first excerpt, dated July 8, 2010, the day I was banned, proves. "She" is me and "it" was ECC). Here is Nancy's "explanation" of why ECC was locked. My explanation is in the original Rebuttal (I was trying to lock a group and didn't realize I had locked my entire website down). FYI, Christine Rainbird wasn't trying to "take over," she joined to market herself. Yes, the thought has crossed my mind a few times that Lieder is paranoid. Not only that, she's well-known for jumping to conclusions, like she does in this next comment...



Next, Nancy outright says "suspend Cheryl," then immediately followed up with Zetatalk (ZT) that heavily implied that Gerard (psning owner) should "suspend Cheryl." As I have said many times, he is under the undue influence of an evil, dominant personality playing him for all he is worth. She knows he accepts ZT as gospel, so how convenient the "Zetas" always agree with Nancy. Why? Because they are Nancy. She uses ZT as a weapon to get her way, as well as bludgeon her enemies...


A note about the "Zetatalk" about me: 99.99% is false. The one thing she got right, I told her. So much for the other 0.01%.

So, Andrew was a stealth mod. Why does one need a stealth mod? Lieder says the Zetas are telepathic...


Notice that he liked the ideas of groups, unlike Nancy's rant against groups on 7/16/2010 at 12:53 p.m., a break from the hive mentality? A good sign.

Some more insight from Andrew...


Good point, Andrew. It doesn't matter who gets it out, as long as it gets out. More on that later.

Anyway, going back to the response before I digressed on Andrew, you can see that Nancy's reply was posted at 1:55 p.m., on July 8th, and Gerard emailed me at 1:11 p.m., same day, during that on-going discussion, asking me questions.


The next email was in response to his questions, sent at 3:03 p.m., same day (full copy in the original Rebuttal), before I knew I had been suspended. In it, I remind him that I own my content and that I was planning to leave it on poleshift ning. This was before I found out that he had already suspended me when I didn’t promptly answer his questions...


To his credit, he was trying to find out the truth, but I was delayed in answering that day (Nancy pressured him to suspend me as you will see next in her explanation for my delayed response, "so will ignore Gerard indefinitely!" And, as you saw above, the emails that prove I was not ignoring answering Gerard at all.


So, you now seen proof of how I was banned. Nancy's fingerprints are all over it, despite her lies to the contrary. You also have seen proof that I would have left my blogs at poleshift.ning if I hadn't been treated so treacherously. So, how did Nancy cover her ass when all my blogs suddenly disappeared? Let's listen to what she has to say...


Now, here is Nancy in action coaching the moderators on what lies to spread about me. On the "jealousy" issue, I think someone told her that she was jealous of me and she turned it the other way around, a common tactic of hers. Also notice that on July 8th, I used the phrase "shoot yourself in the foot" and Nancy uses it two days later. Something I noticed about her, copying things I said.


Can you imagine what 1,500 posting members would be like? It's hard to keep up with if 20 are posting simultaneously. As shown above, Nancy was the de facto killer of Cheryl's blogs. Again, she contradicts herself. Earlier, I was just a poster of news, guilty of depriving 50,000 unique readers weekly. Now, I'm a criminal again for deleting one of my blogs (while unwittingly admitting I didn't post news articles all the time ... she changes her story when it suits her). And if she thinks Cheryl is bragging in #3, what is Nancy doing in #1? Now, let's take a look at the STO issue.... Nancy says I'm STS. Now. But back in 2010 she said I was not just STO, but extremely STO. It's not an issue with me, I don't really think about it, but I would like to know which one is the lie?


This is a continuation of the above ecpsad.ning reply by Nancy. First, in #4, I never claimed I was STO. That's Nancy putting words in my mouth...


Second, notice in #5 above how she spelled my name. Then note how my name is spelled in this next screen shot:


Could "harry heiny" be Nancy? Sounds like she's trying to talk like someone else before quoting herself? And it's posted on July 10, 2010. Later on, Nancy refers to it as being "posted by someone else" therefore she could quote it (presumably without legal liability).

Then her defamatory email to Jamila became public. I addressed the Jamila email in the original Rebuttal, and here is more proof...


I have never called Gerard a "zetazombie." I don't think that way about him. I am concerned that he is under an undue influence leading him in the wrong direction.

More of Nancy's response about the Jamila email, her (Nancy's) defamatory email of me sent to up to 350 recipients. Notice how she is aware that she has created fear to control her members and it's okay with her.



Look at the lengths Nancy goes to make her lies seem real.


We always knew where KarenLee is. She says so, right here:


To finish this post... more negative Nancy having something rotten to say about people...


PART 2

Continuing with the July 13, 2010, 12:53 p.m. comment Nancy posted, in which she says both Shadow and DesertRose have read some unnamed email and both agree with her, however, "they are both silent in deference to Cheryl," next is Shadow's "silence" about Nancy and ZT, responding to Nancy's 7/10/10 12:01 p.m. post...


And another example of Shadow's "silence"


And here is desertrose's opinion of Nancy...


So much for Nancy's lie to make members think that some of the popular mods were in favor of her, and against me. Not true!

I sent Nancy via email a strong condemnation of her behavior on May 24th and now she says I repress anger? Fiercely-loyal-to-Nancy Ken? I think that's already blown up in her face. Gerard couldn't survive without me? Again, just drama. Our Ning is well behaved, the only disruptions have come from Nancy's group and, in the early days, a few from GLP.



Again, no husband, and everything else is just Nancy in a maze of speculation.

Next is more proof of how closely Nancy watches ECC. As for Gerard's sensibilities, he will have to remove Nancy's distortions before he can get a clear communication. I've not broken down, I'm not depressed, I'm not in a rage and, seeing how I live alone, there is no "husband" here to watch me walk around confused, unkempt, etc., even if I was, which I'm not. Why does Nancy watch us so closely? Are we a threat? Is she scared the truth will come out about what the former psning mods saw about her? Yes.



Now my ning is "altogether too peaceful." She can't make up her mind. Nancy calls KarenLee a "jealous bitch." Have you noticed a pattern? She speaks negatively about so many people. The Ken accusations were covered in the original Rebuttal.



This one shows the last line of the one above...


Now, Nancy plays the Scientology card... i.e., involvement in Scientology = you must be delusional... She grabs at any straw she can find. The delusional ones stay for decades. I've been physically out of Scientology since 1991, mentally out since 1986. I wasn't delusional then and I'm not now. If I were, could I have been here nearly every day for over two years, and put together documents like this one?


"effective countering" = Nancy bullying Gerard into suspending Cheryl.


Nancy, via ZT, is really doing a number on Gerard, isn't she? Making sure he never talks to me again. Why? Because I know what Nancy really is. Typical tactic, cut off people from friends and family so they never learn the truth. Being an empath is not a weakness. And, gosh, maybe there are actual real feelings at play, rather than Nancy's spin. But if you don't find out for yourself, instead of relying on second-hand information, you simply don't know. Don't the Zetas want you to think for yourself? They used to.



Again, look at how much Nancy watches ECC. The woman is obsessed. Gerard, sorry, but I am not the clingy type and know better than to let anyone too close in the shadowy cyberworld. This sounds like Nancy drama. I think you view me through Nancy's ZT glasses. And, back to the annual fee obsession... I paid my fee. Except I didn't pay an annual fee, I paid my monthly fee, as will be shown at the end of Part 3. So, another lie in the name of Zetatalk.

The first sentence asks a question, then goes off on a tangent. In it, Zetatalk admits that Cheryl is still attending group meetings. Why would that be if Cheryl was being a horrible STS (service-to-self) by trying to "take over" poleshift.ning? A huge contradiction. Was Nancy at that meeting? No. It's for STO's (service to others) only. I never saw her at any of the meetings I attended.


As an aside, and exploring the first sentence, I wonder if Corrado is "van huizen" whom I had seen in a contactee meeting with Gerard. He was a man I sensed Gerard would meet, someone who would help him. This is from a May 1, 2010 chat...


Upon checking, I found that Corrado lives less than two hours from the border of Germany and The Netherlands. So, Gerard's psychic impression appears correct. And from what AlexR told me, Gerard met with Corrado and her in Germany. I will talk more about Gerard's psychic abilities in Part 4. Since Gerard confides in Nancy, she probably is nervous about his abilities and takes extra care to keep him under her thumb. It is so damaging to know something and then have someone come along and maliciously undermine your certainty about what you know. That's what she did to our friendship, which went from very trusting to total suspicion on his part. As you saw above, she was/is leading him along as to what he should think about me, which is why his impressions about me are wrong--he is viewing me through the lens of her speculations not his true impressions. Then she validates her speculation with her false ZetaTalk to reinforce it. He has offered up his knowingness and integrity on the altar of a "higher reality," one not worthy of his loyalty. But, that's the way cults are. And, it's not just about me. That's just one example. He predicted some earth changes (see Part 4), but it logically follows that he can't use his full abilities if what he knows in any way disagrees with Nancy or her ZetaTalk. So, I think he probably self-censors himself to toe the line. Any good tyrant loves self-censoring subjects.

Now, on to another one of Nancy's obsessions... who is Cheryl selling her Ning to? The truth: no one.


The way Nancy and psning were attacking, I took no chances. Confused? No, a dazed and confused mind would not react rapidly and take preventive measures. As to "her desperate search for a source of members..." linking with other sites is one of the SEO best practices. Would any web owner be crazy for using Twitter to build his or her membership? Gerard does. Is he crazy, too? Or does crazy only relate to Cheryl, no matter what she says or does?

Anyway, unaware of Nancy's ZT in August 2010, the line of succession was established in November 2010 that, should Cheryl become disabled or die, DesertRose is slated to become the new owner of earthchanges.ning.

This screen shows the date/time and blog this was made public...


And this image is further down in that blog. The pertinent parts are the first two paragraphs...


In this next image, Nancy speaks of her own hold over Gerard, while shifting the blame over to me...



Here's Cheryl, poor, pathetic Cheryl, trying oh so hard to sell her pathetic Ning...


"Membership leaves in disgust but do not bother to cancel their membership." If they are disgusted, it seems more logical that they would cancel their membership. But, members do leave and not cancel, and the same applies to psning as well as ECC.


Newspapers always have a variety of topics, something for everyone. Not only do we track earth changes, we track world changes, as well.

PART 3

This part focuses on NZT (NancyZetaTalk, i.e., NancyTalk being published as ZetaTalk) allegations that I am a pathetic money manager, stumble around, unable to pay my Ning fees on time, trying desperately to sell my ning, and will ultimately kill it due to my mental incapacity. The following are posts written by Nancy to her moderators on ecpsad.ning about this. It reads like a soap opera. Ning fees don't have to be paid annually and, at the time, I was paying them monthly (payment history is at the end of this set of screen shots).

The overload of details and repetition is a technique Nancy uses to back up her lies and then say them over and over so that people will believe it must be true. It is a tried and true technique used by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, who infamously said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." He also said, "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." See what's going on here?



Nancy's talk of a mythical husband worrying and refusing to fund my "delusions" are her fantasy, probably used to further kill the friendship with Gerard, since she harps on it so much. At the time of these alleged ZT, there was no husband and no other person was on my checking account, as will be shown below.

The first month Ning fee was paid on 7/21/2010. "Finances too slim" disproven below. Gerard needs to stop trying to do telepathy through Nancy's distortions. My PayPal account is a business account, in the name of my business, a sole proprietorship. And, no joint bank account, as you will see below.


Do you get the picture that Nancy's Zetas are petty, small-minded creatures, gloating with glee and rubbing their hands together in anticipation of the demise of me and ECC? Well, what you are really seeing is none other than Nancy Lieder, exposed.

Next, Nancy has claimed that she has no time for such a TINY TINY ning on GLP, but my documentation shows her visits and I have noted that she has 5 or 6 IP numbers, but claims she's poor. Why does an alleged STO need 5 or 6 IP numbers? The better to conceal her identity so she doesn't get caught spying....Also, more evidence of how much she keeps earthchanges.ning under surveillance.


Since when does a joint checking account require both parties' signatures? Why should Ning, at that time, have had any PayPal information since I used my credit card. See below.

Here's Nancy again, keeping a watchful eye on ECC. Was I crazy to make my entire site private, given this level of violation of privacy and harassment? No. It was a duty I owed my members to try and protect their privacy. It ticked her off she couldn't see what was going on, so she went on a rant about it. Cheryl's insane, etc. If I go to sleep, I'm insane. If I eat breakfast, I'm insane. There is nothing I do that she doesn't criticize and spin.


"ning checks her PayPal account periodically for this" I wasn't using PayPal at that time, thus how could Ning "check" my PayPal account. See below.

Next, here's Nancy monitoring the Members' list again, and she implies my contingency plans were in case I didn't pay my Ning fee and it was shut down (not true), and more blather about debts and court orders.


"...it took until yesterday to raise this." Really? Oh, gosh. What's wrong with Cheryl? Did you ever consider that Cheryl transferred funds from another account at the appropriate time or maybe Cheryl knew money was coming and wasn't worried in the least about making the payment, or already had it budgeted and covered? Well, Nancy's speculation will never be satisfied, but it is irrelevant since there was plenty of money. Especially since I was paying by the month, all of $19.95. With the attacks coming from Nancy and psning, who were trying very hard to shut my website down, I wasn't about to prepay for a year until I could see what was going to happen.


Ning does not show up on credit reports. The monthly fee is not a loan or a revolving account. It is not credit. It's pay-as-you-go. If you don't make your pre-payment, then they simply disable your access until you do. And as far as protection goes, I've been well protected all along, as has been documented on ECC. You want proof: My ning and I are still here and doing well.


Obviously not, as this recent email indicates...


And here Nancy has me trying to sell my ning to John DiNardo, with no success...



Ning transaction tracked? Meeting? News to me. Ah, the meeting occurred off-world, on-board a ship, it's in my recall that is being carefully veiled from my knowledge. Right. Okay. Whatever. Stern looks gonna cure me of what ails me? Big whatever. It's so easy to say anything when it can't be proven.

Also notice that Nancy confesses to spamming ECC during my absence, "as part of the plan to create chaos there during the financial implosion." Not STO behavior by any stretch of the imagination. But definite proof of intent.

Sunday was 8/22... Guess Nancy was just too worried about my "problems" to get it right. Obviously, my "rage at being ruined" is also a lie, since I wasn't "ruined" at all. "prejudice the world against Gerard and Nancy" is more of Nancy's spin, it's called scapegoating... assigning to others your own sins. That's what she's been doing to me since 2010. She claims I'm destroying my ning, but in reality she's destroying Gerard's.


I never "invaded" Gerard's ning. However, I cannot control my members, but have never suggested but have counseled that they not do anything surreptitious or unethical. I have a few emails where I was asked and I responded no. And, two years later, ECC is doing fine, no failure anywhere, no court orders, etc. Now, Nancy moves into her delusion that I was trying to find new owners for my "failing" ning... (She's really obsessed about the $200 Ning fee, isn't she?)


John DiNardo posts were, and are, pertinent. Advertising John Moore was a courtesy. Next, she talks about a "free Ning" period. The free trial period started in June and ended 30 days later. Don't the Zetas tell her anything? Oh wait! It was ZT that said it. And, darn it, they gave a date... never fails they shoot themselves in the foot when they give dates...

Abandoned my site? I doubt Ning cares what goes on as long as they get paid...


There was no $200 payment to Ning at that time, just my routine, monthly payment, as the Billing and Payment History shows...


So, the moment of truth has arrived. Is Cheryl delusional and a pathetic manager of money as Nancy Lieder and her sock puppet Zetas say, or is Nancy Lieder a pathological liar and fraud?

Well, it's easy enough to determine. Let's look at my bank account, the source of all Nancy/Zeta speculation and commentary, and see what was going on around the time of their allegations. Note that the small windows were used to electronically redact personal/private information. And further note that the account is not a joint account, no "husband" is listed, and ample funds were available on the relevant date.



So, if Nancy Lieder is detached from reality enough to create and publicize ZetaTalk based on her fantasies about my finances, etc., then it is reasonable to conclude that her pseudo-scientific Zetatalk is also a likely creation of her fantasies, and just as wrong, as well. As proof, witness the screwball theories and predictions she has conveyed in the name of a "superior race" of extraterrestrials. (See the left column section "Questionable ZetaTalk" on the homepage. If the links are unreadable, just refresh the page.)

CONCLUSION

This is the information conveyed by the evidence presented above:

Nancy Lieder publishes false Zetatalk;
Thus, Zetatalk is not reliable.

Nancy Lieder is negative, vengeful, and habitually lies to achieve her agenda;
Thus, Nancy is not trustworthy, nor is she service-to-other (STO).

Nancy Lieder exhibits signs of mental illness;
Thus, she is not competent to be in any kind of a leadership role.

Nancy Lieder, for the foregoing reasons, is a danger to any group with which she is associated. Witness the state psning is in currently. Consider the past yahoogroup she destroyed. Look at the number of failed predictions she has made in the name of the Zeta Reticulans (whose imaginary presence has empowered her hold over people's minds).

It is my opinion, based on my own personal observations and the evidence presented herein and in the original Rebuttal, that she is a mentally ill person (sociopath? narcissistic? paranoid?) who, among other things, covets power over vulnerable people, who in turn feed her ego; the type of personality that government agencies employ to wage disinformation campaigns on their behalf. In fact, astrophysicist Professor James McCanney believes she works for NASA, and says so in this interview: Jim McCanney Interview...

"McCanney: The only non-NASA site that he lists is Zetatalk, which is, literally, a NASA site - the Nancy Lieder site, which was built by NASA to create more disinformation about the topic of Planet X."

. . .

"McCanney: It's a whole consciousness thing. I keep saying, the idea of Planet X - and that's why the government has created Nancy Lieder: because they want a date when it's NOT going to happen. That's why they created Enigma. They want a date, they want a time. They want to go in the newspapers and on the media and say: "Look at these crazy people. Look at all this stupid stuff that's coming out of the Internet. Listen to us, because we're the ones who will tell you the real story."


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